The Official Crystal Chappell Message Boards • View topic

10zlaine · **Posted:** Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:18 am

NEWS: Jon Lindstrom, CORRIE, Sessions, VENICE
by Roger Newcomb • 6 Dec 2009

http://www.welovesoaps.net/2009/12/news ... sions.html

New Web Series Paints Venice as a Hot Bed of Steamy Action...With a Purpose

"You can drop $9.99 to buy a pass for the whole series as a subscriber, but to take the show out for a spin you can watch the first episode via YouTube, where it's garnered largely positive reviews and over 18k hits. Who knows, if the web series takes off, it might just give landlords and realtors in Venice incentive to hike up rental and home prices and capitalize on the world-changing powers of Gina and her 'prism.'"

10zlaine · **Posted:** Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:25 am

The Week in Review: Most Popular Posts

http://www.welovesoaps.net/2009/12/week ... posts.html

In case you missed them, here are the 15 most popular topics over the past week at We Love Soaps:

- VENICE The Series: Episode #1
- How Valued is VENICE?
- VENICE Is A Hit
- GOTHAM & VENCE: The Future of Soaps?
- Catching Up With Taylor Miller, Part One
- We Love Soaps: Hot in November
- NEWS: Barr, Lucci, VENICE, Grinch, Allman/Lucio
- The Susan Flannery Interview, Part One
- True Colors Cabaret: Hansis, Michele & Groff
- Catching Up With Taylor Miller, Part Two
- Tonight's the Night: VENICE Finally Debuts!
- INDIE SOAP BEAT: December 2, 2009
- VENICE Mention on Australia's SUNRISE
- The Susan Flannery Interview, Part Two
- DAYS Ratings Highs: 11 Month W18-49, 10 Month W18-34

10zlaine · **Posted:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:59 am

Pay Per View Lesbians
By Gooner • Dec 7th, 2009

http://www.gaelick.com/2009/12/pay-per- ... ians/5475/

Late last month I blogged about the long awaited season premier of “Venice the Series” (here) and to my delight the pilot episode did not disappoint. Those of us who watched Otalia on the US soap “Guiding Light” will be able to appreciate it a little more but those of you who didn’t will still be able to enjoy a lesbian show that was envisaged by three ladies who wanted to give us lesbians what we crave, a decent storyline out there front and centre. Crystal Chappell stars in the show and along with writer Kim Turrisi and director Hope Royaltey (the three ladies are exec. producers) she has made a show which we all hope will have lesbian characters at its core, the more of that the better.

The first episode is a little over six minutes long and it introduces us to the two main characters played by Chappell and her Otalia counterpart Jessica Leccia. The two appear to be exes, but in typical lesbian fashion it seems they have tried their relationship more than once.

I have to say I was eagerly anticipating this episode and I was not disappointed. However, from this point on the show is a subscription service and each season will now cost $9.99 to view.

So what do we think ladies, is this what we need, pay per view storylines?

For my part I think it is. The women who are making the show are doing so off their own bat and it doesn’t come for free. They have a crew to pay, actors, locations and all the rest, so I think it is fair enough. Perhaps $9.99 seems a bit steep when you consider the length of the episodes, perhaps a “donation” would be a better idea? Then again, these things cost a lot of money to put on screen, even the net. Plus, when you subscribe you get some behind the scenes extras which are always fun.

I have been chatting on YouTube about it with quite a few lesbians from around the globe and so far most are more than willing to pay. One woman from Venezuela was saying there was no way she could afford it and that was disappointing to see, I’m sure she is not alone. However, someone else was saying they heard on the Venice Facebook page that there will be a DVD available at some stage so perhaps people who can’t afford the subscription will be able to afford that, or know someone who can.

I have to admit to being surprised we had to pay but I am more than willing to do so. However, I do genuinely feel for those people who really can’t afford it. Some of the women I talk to on YouTube are from parts of the world where outlets like this are all they have and it seems a shame that they might not be able to access it. However the reality is that the subscription fees for season 1 are needed to pay the costs of making season 2 and so on. This is the harsh reality. The women making this show are doing their best to pull free of TV money but unfortunatly they still have bills to pay and if there is no TV exec to sort it out then subscriptions and the V Shop seem like decent options.

Win · **Joined:** Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:02 pm **Posts:** 3361

WEB SHOW OF THE WEEK
Venice finally debuts …… and it’s ah-mazing! Did. Not. Disappoint. Congrats to everyone involved. The production, lighting, sound, acting and writing were all spectacular. Most importantly, I felt like for the first time I was finally given a proper Otalia send-off through watching life and post-sex with Gina and Ani. Heaven has a cushy pad all reserved for Crystal Chappell! I’ll have a more in-depth review after a few more episodes air. Brava! P.S. How dreamy is Galen Gering in HD? Very! By the way, La Chappell tells Soapgeist that Venice will air out every Friday at 8 p.m. PT. So stay tuned.

10zlaine · **Posted:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:11 pm

What Soap Opera (and The Hills) Stereotypes Will Lez Series Venice Adopt?

http://www.queerty.com/what-soap-opera- ... -20091207/

Now that CBS soap Guiding Light has gone into the light, it's finally time for the show's actresses Crystal Chappell and Jessica Leccia — who were lovers on the soap — to carry on their love affair on another screen. Your computer's.

After much summer hype, the lady-loving web series Venice is here, and it's a delicious post-coital, L Word-y appetizer of Hills-size proportions. We're not sure how they're going to monetize this (iTunes downloads?), but for now we're just happy to see these pretty gals picking up where Guiding Light left off. Albeit with new characters, plotlines, and, we're hoping, sex scenes.

10zlaine · **Posted:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:56 pm

The Virtual Soapbox
— By Mala Bhattacharjee

http://www.soapoperadigest.com/opinions/mala/

I watched VENICE, GOTHAM and WED-LOCKED this weekend, and while it's great to see actors branching out with indie projects, I'm not ready to throw a ticker-tape parade and cry, "Hooray, soaps are saved!" just yet.

First things first, despite the fact that I practically live on the Internet, I'm a traditionalist. I prefer to hold a book in my hands rather than reading it on an Amazon Kindle, and I only watch TV shows on my computer out of necessity, not enjoyment. So even if these Web shows wowed me to the very depths, my instinct would still be, "Man, I wish I could watch them on television." To me, that should still be the daytime industry's goal: to keep us viable on TV. I think the day that we look to the Internet as our solution and savior is the day we lose a huge battle. Yes, it's the future of media, but until there's technology in every single household for Internet-based shows to be broadcast on your 35-inch Toshiba, I'm going to be cautious.

And I was cautious going into all three of these Web series. Let's face it, the hype for GOTHAM and VENICE has been huge. And maybe that's why, ironically, it was Lawrence Saint-Victor (ex-Remy, GL) and Karla Mosley's (ex-Christina, GL) WED-LOCKED that I actually came away liking the most. There were no fancy credit sequences, no jump-cuts and montages and snazzy edits. It was just watching two people — the fairly juvenile Robbie and his control freak wife Denise — interact within the confines of a fledgling marriage. Saint-Victor and Mosley are wonderful together, and their characters bear little resemblance to Remy and Christina.

That's in direct opposition to VENICE, which kicked off riding the coattails of GL's Olivia and Natalia. In its favor, I will say that the production values were great, the visuals absolutely stunning, and VENICE definitely has its technical stuff together. But pretty images (and an even prettier cast) aside, it seems like the whole premise is just to give Otalia fans a story that includes Crystal Chappell and Jessica Leccia making out like they weren't able to on GL. In other words, it's Otalia fan fiction with the names changed. Except, folks, here's the thing: fan fiction is free. To watch more than the six-minute pilot episode of VENICE, people must subscribe and pay $9.99 for a season pass. Yeah, I'm not doing that. I wasn't intrigued enough by what I saw to plunk down 10 bucks for more of it. In six minutes, we had at least 1-2 minutes of credits and establishing shots. Then, it was Gina and Ani kissing and cuddling in bed, Gina pulling a QUEER AS FOLK's Brian Kinney and going, "So sorry baby, not into commitment, can we just have sex in the shower instead?" and a scene with Galen Gering's Owen that had no story value, since you'd only know he was Gina's brother if you'd read a character description.

The 3-minute GOTHAM teaser suffered from similar issues. It wasted entirely too much time on a senseless establishing montage, had terrible sound quality and jumped around like a music video. It told the viewers evenless about its characters than VENICE did. I had no idea who Michael Park, Martha Byrne and Anne Sayre were playing (again, outside of reading their character descriptions beforehand) and the voicemails left on Park's character's phone were lost on me. I didn't recognize any of those dulcet tones! I just saw rich people doing rich things and then Michael and Martha stared at each other in a Very Meaningful Way.

I sound like a total Debby Downer, right? I know. I didn't want to. I wanted to like these shows, I wanted to be supportive. And I'll probably tune in to future episodes of GOTHAM just to see if it finds its footing. But based on what I've seen so far, I wouldn't quite herald Web soaps as the successor to televised drama. They need to work out some more kinks first. And VENICE needs to not charge for the rest of its episodes. Having to pay to watch lesbians involved in drama is why I quit watching Showtime's THE L WORD!

10zlaine · **Posted:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:39 pm

"Venice" the Series Premiere
By TheInsomniac • December 7th, 2009

http://www.velvetparkmedia.com/blogs/ve ... s-premiere

Venice made it's first webisode available on YouTube last Friday evening and at last check the view count is heading toward 50,000.

I suspect among these there are many repeat viewers — especially those Otalia fans who finally got their kiss(es) between Crystal Chappell and Jessica Leccia. There was even some rolling around and shower innuendo. The six minutes shot in beautiful Venice, California did its job in getting me hooked. I'd be curious to know what the non-Otalia people thought since it's hard for me to be objective about Crystal Chappell. The Venice producers are going to raise money to pay for the second season by charging ten dollars to access the rest of season one.

http://www.venicetheseries.com

That's about 14 cents a minute... and they promise "behind the scenes" footage, etc. I'll scrape together the cash and subscribe to their site, but please someone shoot me if I admit to watching the "making of..." special feature.

Win · **Joined:** Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:02 pm **Posts:** 3361

Two videos of Crystal and Hope at the Venice debut in Las Vegas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv95RfrvZp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGNqVIYJJ5M

Win · **Joined:** Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:02 pm **Posts:** 3361

What Otalia does in Vegas, stays in Vegas...

.

10zlaine · **Posted:** Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:59 am

Otalia fans everywhere rejoice with the premiere of “Venice”
by drummerdeeds

http://www.afterellen.com/blog/drummerd ... -of-venice

Last Friday night, a million little lesbians squealed with joy as they watched the first six-minute webisode of Venice for the 50th time.

Yes, my friends, Otalia is back and hotter than ever in the online series created by Crystal Chappell and Kimmy Turrisi, which stars the beautiful Chappell as Gina Brogno and Jessica Leccia as Ani Martino.

The series, set in Venice Beach, Calif., follows Gina a gay, “self-made interior designer who is strong, independent and has an extremely dry wit.” The woman drips with sexual confidence, but still struggles to gain the approval of her strict military father. The storyline follows the trials and tribulations of her family, love life, career, and her on-again/off-again relationship with Ani.

Ani's job as a fashion photographer leads her to move to New York City and travel the globe. Gina keeps Ani hanging on a thread, and cannot provide Ani with the type of commitment she desires.

Warning: minor plot spoilers ahead.

The first episode opens with bras and boots strewn across the floor, and none other than Otalia — er, Gina and Ani — making out in Gina’s bed the morning after they ran into each other at the Grill and, obviously slept together. Blame it on the a-a-a-a-alcohol.

Ani has been back from New York for a few days but didn’t know if she should telephone her former boo with the way they left things last time (i.e. dumped and depressed).

Naturally, after lesbians have sex, they have to have “the talk.”

Ani: What exactly was last night?
Gina: Fun!
Ani: What does that mean?
Gina: Exciting, pleasurable, I’d like to do it again —
Ani: You’re such a smart ass, I forgot.

This sums up the reason why they’re not together, and Ani’s frustration with Gina’s noncommittal ways. Though Ani tries to make Gina stay in bed and talk about their complicated boot-knocking, Gina’s phone rings — the ringtone is “Poker Face” by Lada Gaga — and she informs Ani that she has a meeting and doesn’t even have one minute to spare to talk about relationship things with her doe-eyed lover. So cruel.

How can Gina resist a beautiful woman who wears her bathrobe because “it smells like [her]?” Poor Ani is still waiting for the day when Gina will realize that she made a huge mistake by letting Ani go. She tells Gina that she will never give up on her, and when Gina can’t understand why Ani loves her so much, Ani explains that she can see her so clearly “through all [her] bullshit.” Gina shows no sign of relenting, so I guess we have our answer for what last night was. Just a fling.

Gina: I don’t think I can be what you need me to be.
Ani: I know.

Gina invites her to take a shower with her and Ani concedes. But hey, it doesn’t make Ani weak — who wouldn’t want to take a shower with Crystall Chappell, regardless of the way she treats you?

The episode sets the tone for the rest of the season, which is sure to be filled with heartbreak, new romances, and family issues. Gina’s little brother Owen, played by Galen Gering, points out, “[Ani] never stopped loving you either, so be careful with her.” The torrid tale of unrequited love between Ani and Gina is the central theme, though each woman meets a potential love interest along the way.

Chappell, co-creator and co-executive producer, has helped to create a believable storyline with real, developed characters, resulting in a wildly entertaining series. Fans have the added bonus of seeing Chappell and Leccia interact with each other in physical ways that were never afforded them in the CBS daytime drama.

Though Otalia fans will undoubtedly campaign heavily for the two women to ultimately get back together, the ride along the way looks to be dramatic, sexy and hilarious.

The first episode is free online, but with a $9.99 subscription, fans can watch the whole first season.

What did you think of the first webisode? Is Venice a winner?

10zlaine · **Posted:** Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:07 am

Quick Clicks: David Henrie, ‘Unclothed Man’, MySpace
by Marc Hustvedt

http://news.tubefilter.tv/2009/12/07/qu ... n-myspace/

Web series and web video tid bits worth clicking today:

Venice The Series, a new steamy drama series debuted online last week to a not too shabby 65k views on the pilot on YouTube. The indie series “unifies the gay lifestyle with the straight world; people of color with multi-ethnic groups; and people in Venice, California with the global community,” according to the show’s mantra. Viewers can get a season pass (HD ad-free episodes for $9.99).

10zlaine · **Posted:** Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:10 pm

StarObserver.com - Kiss makes it real
by Scott Abrahams

http://www.starobserver.com.au/entertai ... real/19029

Imagine watching two women fall in love, talk about sex, partner for life, and then never seeing them kiss.

While this story was unfolding in at least 28 countries on TV and via YouTube, Crystal Chappell and Jessica Leccia were voted 2009’s Sexiest Couple Alive by both heterosexual and gay viewers internationally.

The realisation that the kiss was not going to happen on Guiding Light, which ended in September, hasn’t stopped Chappell from making it happen. She teamed up with her writing partner, Kim Turrisi, and a third producer, Hope Royaltey, and by pooling resources, actors and crew, and a loyal fan base, they produced their own web series, Venice the Series. In the first 30 seconds, you will see Chappell and Leccia kiss.

The setting is Venice Beach and the series focuses on family and friends. The lead character is played by Chappell, who recently returned to Days of Our Lives as Carly.

The first of the 12 six-minute episodes aired in Australia on December 5.

info: To watch the trailer, visit http://www.venicetheseries.com Also visit venicetheseries on Facebook or Twitter.

10zlaine · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:43 pm

INDIE SOAP BEAT: December 9, 2009
by Roger Newcomb

http://www.welovesoaps.net/2009/12/indi ... -2009.html

In this week's "Indie Soap Beat" feature, we take a look at the latest happenings from around the world of independent soap opera production.

VENICE premiered on Friday night to mostly rave reviews. There were some issues with the website, much discussion about the $9.99 subscription price and lots of hype but in the end the show did a pretty good job of delivering. And it was also a "ratings" success. The show has been viewed over 86,000 times, received numerous YouTube honors and is still receiving them. The next episode will air Friday night and it will be interesting to see the response as the seasonal subscription kicks in. It will also be interesting to see how quickly the show is pirated around the web and how the show handles and prevents that. If you thought coming up with a workable business model was hard... UPDATE: VENICE has moved their second episode to Friday, December 18. The show will air a new teaser and behind the scenes footage this Friday instead.

10zlaine · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:21 pm

Is There Still a Future for Soap Operas?
By Michael Maloney

http://insidetv.aol.com/2009/12/09/is-t ... ap-operas/

Quote:

...But what of the gradual change in who watches soaps, and when? For decades, soaps relied on stay-at-home moms to watch and also encourage their children to get hooked on the drama. "If women were not in the workforce as much, we'd have more viewers," suggests Bruno. "You come home from school and your mother and grandmother are watching and you watch, too."

Martha Byrne, who played Lily for over 20 years on 'As the World Turns,' counters that working moms are still watching daytime. "I'm a working mom and I have been my whole life," the actress says. "I make sure I find time to watch 'Y&R'; my friends do, too. They watch SOAPnet. They like having the freedom to watch after their kids have gone to bed."

Given that shift in viewership, the future of soaps may ultimately lie in the Web. Byrne is one of a handful of actresses who've created Web soap operas. Her program 'Gotham' utilizes familiar faces from daytime, as does Chappell's 'Venice.' "I certainly think that we're going to see more shows pop up on the Web," says Chappell, who hastens to add, "I'm not convinced that daytime network TV won't survive. It'll had to tweak itself and do it for less money." ...

Read the rest of the article at insidetv.aol.com.

Win · **Joined:** Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:02 pm **Posts:** 3361

READ FULL ARTICLE HERE

Quote:

After months of teaser campaigns via Twitter and the Venice website, the crew of Venice, including director Hope Royaltey, promised fans a kiss within the first 30 seconds between Gina and Ani (played by former co-stars of the Otalia love story, Crystal Chappell and Jessica Leccia on the America’s CBS network soap opera Guiding Light) and they certainly didn’t disappoint with a morning after love scene for an opener, the first episode, although a little short, certainly did deliver fans (especially the Otalia fans who finally got to see these two kiss) an amazing first look at what is sure to be a very exciting and successful series.

10zlaine · **Posted:** Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:59 am

Venice To Resume On Dec. 18
by Jillian Bowe • December 9, 2009 - 10:47pm

http://daytimeconfidential.com/2009/12/ ... -on-dec-18

Bad news Venice fans, Crystal Chappell tweeted the second episode of her web series will not be shown this week. Chappell wrote,

Quote:

We need the next week and half to get site up. So we need this Friday. Will be back on 18th! Promise! Thanks for ur patience!

According to Chappell, more servers are needed to handle the demands viewers placed onto the site! Says Chappell,

Quote:

Bad? We need four servers to handle all of you! But its going to take a little time. But will do and can do!

10zlaine · **Posted:** Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:07 pm

The Week in Review: Most Popular Posts
December 13, 2009

http://www.welovesoaps.net/2009/12/week ... ts_13.html

In case you missed them, here are the 15 most popular topics over the past week at We Love Soaps:

1. AS THE WORLD TURNS Has Been Canceled
2. AS THE WORLD TURNS Ends on CBS in September 2010
3. Melanie Smith Returns To Soaps, Joins GOTHAM Cast!
4. VENICE The Series: Episode #1
5. VENICE Is A Hit
6. James Franco at Brooks Brothers Christmas Event
7. Ashley Marie Greiner Off AS THE WORLD TURNS
8. Catching Up With Taylor Miller, Part One
9. INDIE SOAP BEAT: December 9, 2009
10. The Susan Flannery Interview, Part Three
11. The Susan Flannery Interview, Part Four
12. NEWS: End of ATWT, Still Shopping GL, More TV for P&G
13. CBS: Holiday-Themed Episodes On The Way
14. The Susan Flannery Interview, Part One
15. ROMANOVICH: Updates In Light Of ATWT News

10zlaine · **Posted:** Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:12 pm

Exclusive Video: “Otalia” Live on in Venice – The Series (Part 1)
by Jonathan Rosales, GLAAD's Entertainment Media Manager

GLAAD’s Entertainment Media team recently had the privilege of sitting down for a conversation with Crystal Chappell. Diehard fans of Guiding Light will remember Crystal as one half of lesbian supercouple Olivia and Natalia, or “Otalia.”

Though Otalia supporters were disappointed by the lack of intimacy that the couple were allowed to show, Crystal is keeping the spirit of Otalia alive in her new web series, Venice – The Series. Crystal plays Gina, a lesbian with a tumultuous love life, and Jessica Leccia, who played Natalia, will appear as Ani, Gina’s ex-girlfriend. The first episode is already available on the series’ website and episode 2 will premiere on December 18. Fans can subscribe for $9.99 for the full season.

Especially in light of the dearth of lesbian characters on television, GLAAD applauds Crystal Chappell for bringing much needed visibility to the lesbian community.

In the video below, Crystal gives an overview of the series and what to expect in the coming season. Check in next Friday for part 2 of our interview!

10zlaine · **Posted:** Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:02 pm

Season Two For VENICE

With episode two of VENICE ready to go on December 18, Crystal Chappell (Carly, DAYS) is already looking forward to season two. "The fans have been amazing and that's what has made this thing," she says. "They're buying subscriptions, which I think is unbelievably generous and then there are groups of people who are buying subscriptions to give away to other people who can't afford it. I knew these people were loyal and I knew they were very vocal and I trusted them all along the way. I never felt they were going to bail and they knew I wasn't going to bail on them, so that's motivating. Because of what they bought in the [online] store, it funded season one, so it's their investment in this and it's been strong and solid. We made the money for season two on the first episode, so it's going to move forward."

Chappell admits she was overwhelmed by the response. "I hired a company in Colorado and they're putting us on four servers to handle all the traffic because we've had 24 million hits since September and 225,000 unique visitors since the first of December through the 5th or 6th; just in about a week," she marvels. "You look at that and you think, 'That's a good rating,' and it makes you want to keep doing it. I'm gong to be able to give my actors some money, a little bonus for Christmas and then next season, I'm hoping to have sponsorship. Fortunately, because of the fans' response, we've had people contact us about meetings about sponsorships, so we're heading into that next phase."

She's especially pleased by the reaction from the "Otalia" fans. "They got to see what they wanted to see," she smiles. "And honestly, I didn't know it was this much work! I'm happy to do it and I like doing it a lot, but because of the 'Otalia' story, the energy that was poured into that from the fans and how important it is to them, it's not just a show for me, because at this point I'm not making any money. But it's amazing because people tell me time and time again that they have nowhere to go on television or any medium where they can watch a true depiction of themselves and their lives, so I feel really good that they feel they have a place to go now and I know my partners do as well."

The actress already has some changes planned for next season. "We've had some really good feedback and some really great criticism," she says. "I value all of it. Story-wise, the first season was written as a script, so it's been interesting and challenging to find those tag and edit moments. Next season, it will be written probably a little but longer, like 8 minutes or 10, but we'll write it with definite arcs."

For more, visit venicetheseries.com.

SOURCE

10zlaine · **Posted:** Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:48 am

Web Series to Watch: “Venice” Delivers for Lesbians

http://www.planetout.com/entertainment/ ... bians.html

“Otalia” is back (sort of) and better than ever. The Guiding Light soap opera coupling of Natalia (Jessica Leccia) and Olivia (Crystal Chappell) spawned fans so fiercely devoted, the stars created a new Web series, Venice, to explore complex, passionate, and sexy relationships between lesbians.

Chappell plays Gina Brogno, “a self-made interior designer who is strong, independent and has an extremely dry wit,” according to the series’ site, but has a lot of complications in her personal and family life. The lovely Leccia plays journalist Ani Martin, who has an off-again, on-again relationship with Gina. The series’ “plot follows Gina’s human experience in connection with her various [female] love interests, brother Owen, father The Colonel and myriad other characters that make up Gina’s network of relationships.”
Full of familiar daytime faces and real, racy lesbian sexuality (unlike the network soaps), the series makes its first season’s full 12 episodes available by subscription for only $9.99 on the official site here.

Take a look at Advocate.com’s special behind-the-scenes look at Venice, plus details from the cast!

TELL US: Otalia fans sound off—who’s your dream girl: Natalia or Olivia?